When is a clue, just a clue?

[immortal1]

So it's been mentioned in previous threads so I thought maybe it might prove more productive to discuss in it's own thread.

I think it's been a little unclear when a puzzle is solved and when there is more to do.

First we had the message "help her Friday under the blue stone." Naturally the audience assumes they are the ones who were supposed to help and started searching for blue stone references. Turns out there was no way to know it was literally a blue stone that would be seen at the HoO seminar.

Next, we had the whole "hall of ponies" thing. Again, after everyone spins their wheels it turns out to be a coded message that could only be resolved with knowledge not available to the audience.

The problem with this kind of thing is that you get into a "cry wolf" scenario where come the time where there is a puzzle that actually needs to be solved by the audience to further the story, they'll just sit back and watch it play out thinking it's not for them to solve.

It may just be adjusting our mindset, away from an ARG way of thinking to an understanding that we are to play along with the characters instead of solving it for them or ourselves. I'm pretty sure this is where we are heading. If this is the case the character interaction will be key. They are really going to have to direct our attention to what to focus on and when to stop.

[ApotheosisAZ]

I took the first letter of each word in immortal1's message here, ran it through an anagram engine, found a phone number, called it, and it led me to an address where I was given a number and told to wait in line.

Okay, not funny. He's right, if the characters themselves tip us off to when we should be trying to decode something, it would be helpful.

People like myself will probably look for ourselves anyway, and that is part of the fun.

[immortal1]

He's right, if the characters themselves tip us off to when we should be trying to decode something, it would be helpful.

haha I was thinking more that they could tell us when to stop. After you run your head into a wall a few times you realize it hurts and you stop. At least that's when I stopped. ouch.

[Shaneener]

I agree.

I was up for hours and hours thinking about the hall of ponies and Sid the Clown.

Then it turned out the only person who could understand it was Jonas.

o0

Yeeeeaaahhh...

All that for nothing.

[Gidget]

I took the first letter of each word in immortal1's message here, ran it through an anagram engine, found a phone number, called it, and it led me to an address where I was given a number and told to wait in line.

Hahaha I thought it was funny!

It may just be adjusting our mindset, away from an ARG way of thinking to an understanding that we are to play along with the characters instead of solving it for them or ourselves. I'm pretty sure this is where we are heading. If this is the case the character interaction will be key. They are really going to have to direct our attention to what to focus on and when to stop.

While I do get annoyed when the creators send us on a wild goose chase, I think it would take all the fun out of it if we knew what was a puzzle and what wasn't. The main reason I do this is because of all the codes and clues and I like overanalyzing things And you never know, things can pop up later we didnt see before. I can see your point, don't really see why its hurting to have a few red herrings now and then.

[LiLskttles87]

I took the first letter of each word in immortal1's message here, ran it through an anagram engine, found a phone number, called it, and it led me to an address where I was given a number and told to wait in line.

Okay, not funny. He's right, if the characters themselves tip us off to when we should be trying to decode something, it would be helpful.

People like myself will probably look for ourselves anyway, and that is part of the fun.

Apo ur sooo funny.....

but the thing that threw me all off about the blue flyer message is that Taylor was in beast chat on friday pushing everyone to figure it out and giving clues.... that wasn't fair it was a flase lead and because of what she said two forum members seperatly went to a loaction we all thought it would be and nothing was there.

[trainer101]

There are definitely some wrinkles to iron out here. The whole "blue stone phone message" seemed to be directed at the audience - only to find out it was intended for Jonas and there's no way we could have solved it.

[BrightSilence]

Actually I remember Taylor mentionning more than once that it was probably only something Daniel or Jonas would know. Didn't anyone take that as a hint?

True I decided to keep thinking, but in the back of my head I knew it was useless. She probably just came around to confirm what the message said.

As for the whole clue/puzzle/solved thing. I think when it's clear you solved something, like the "help her friday" thing. Wich is a solution to a puzzle. Open a new topic to discuss what it means, a new clue topic. If it's not that clear just keep the topic active until it is or dies...

I think I'm not making sense, so I'm gonna stop typing now...

[Skunkwaffle]

Suggestion: instead of leading the fans to something (like the hall of ponies phone number) without any explanation of what it means to the characters, why not have Jonas (or whichever character it pertains to) simply say that they've already called the number, and that they think they know what it means.

That way we'd all be free to call and listen and interact and discuss, but ultimately we'd already know that we were not being relied upon to figure the answers out.

[LiLskttles87]

Suggestion: instead of leading the fans to something (like the hall of ponies phone number) without any explanation of what it means to the characters, why not have Jonas (or whichever character it pertains to) simply say that they've already called the number, and that they think they know what it means.

That way we'd all be free to call and listen and interact and discuss, but ultimately we'd already know that we were not being relied upon to figure the answers out.

I think that would have been a really good way for them to do it. i totally agree with skunkwaffle

[garnet]

Yes, I do remember Taylor telling us several times that maybe "hall of ponies" or "Sid the clown" means something to either Jonas or Daniel. At the time, I remember wondering if this was a clear message from the c's to stop trying to decode the message.

I also wondered if Taylor was ALWAYS going to be right or if she would eventually lead us down a wrong path (for reality's sake). It is starting to look like Taylor has some sort of sixth sense. She has been serving as the voice of the c's, giving us hints about the letter from Bree's dad and trying to point us in the right direction at times.

It is frustrating when we think we've figured something out, but the characters don't post on the boards, so we don't know if they have it figured out too. On the other hand, this helps to create a sense of dramatic irony which adds interest to the show. It is the kind of thing we love to hate.

There is also the question of whether or not we can truly change the story. Ultimately, I think we do, but in much more subtle ways than we would sometimes hope. There is an element of life imitating art in this with the entire theme of free will versus determinism.

[nowherepixie]

I think when the characters specifically ask us for help, that should be a cue for us to jump on board.

And they should do it more often

[deagol]

I think the creators should fire the PM for having a shill! ...oh wait, that's what averyone's asking from Taylor/Daniel/Jonas hmm, when did shilling become such a desired thing?

[Ziola]

And yet another reason to add to my "Why I Love Deagol" list...

[deagol]

lol Z, omg the list!

The point I'm trying to make with that very tongue-in-cheek comment is that such forced OOG motivated character interactions which are being suggested here only degrade the experience, are demeaning to the characters, and tear down the fourth wall, in my opinion.

The problem here is that you can't present a puzzle to the players and expect them not to work on it, even if some character says "stop, we've solved it." People will keep at it. People will question whether Jonas got it right, or they'll question Taylor's allegiance, or they'll still try to work it out themselves because if Jonas did it I can do it too.

The real cause of the problem is presenting a puzzle which the audience can't really solve on their own, eventhough they did help decode some intermediate message. The whole thing feels like a waste of time, including the parts that were solved (HoO acrostics) because the most satisfying reward, the feeling that you've discovered something relevant to the plot, was taken away from the audience.

Compare this "puzzle" with the "note from Bree's dad" puzzle, in which Taylor also shilled. That's a very satisfying puzzle because we know that we were perfectly capable and definitely would've been able to solve it on our own, and the shilling was understood as a needed nudge in order to keep the story going. But even more than that, the satisfaction mostly came from understanding the importance of the solution found: camp play was one of our old unanswered questions (it still remains a mystery, but at the moment of finding the solve it felt like we would finally get some answers about it). In contrast, we have zero emotional connection with "blue stone, ponies, and sid the clown" as a solve, and thus the frustration.

In short, don't turn the characters into shills. People would stop working things out for themselves and IC interaction would turn into a hunt for clues, which defeats the purpose (character developement). Instead, give us puzzles that we can solve entirely, that we can connect with the plot, that give us answers to all our questions. I know it's hard, but please keep trying.

Thanks.