[ANALYSIS] Semiotics: Egyptian Hieroglyphics

rayne100 · Post by **rayne100** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:03 am

Mod note: I moved this thread out of the Opa Emails discussion thread, because it seemed like it was going in an interesting direction that had little to do with emails. Take a look! -tilting

Hey guys... I very rarely post, however check out #22 and #23 on this list of Gardinarian Egyptian Heiroglyphs....

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm

iamcool · Post by **iamcool** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:39 am

rayne100 wrote:Hey guys... I very rarely post, however check out #22 and #23 on this list of Gardinarian Egyptian Heiroglyphs....

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm

wierd

janesalteredstates · Post by **janesalteredstates** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:14 am

rayne100 wrote:Hey guys... I very rarely post, however check out #22 and #23 on this list of Gardinarian Egyptian Heiroglyphs....

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm

Whoa. Can you (or someone) post this in the images thread? It can't be a coincidence. Can it? I mean, #9 is the eye...

Ugh. I don't know.

What might be important is finding out what the difference is between 22 and 23. I believe they are mouths. But why the lines at the bottom? Why two then three? What do they represent?

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:28 am

Apo already posted thi earlier in the email thread.
He emailed OpAphid about this, and Opaphid basically said No quite but that he was getting closer.

iamcool · Post by **iamcool** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:22 am

Killthesmiley wrote:Apo already posted thi earlier in the email thread.
He emailed OpAphid about this, and Opaphid basically said No quite but that he was getting closer.

i didnt see him post anything like that link

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:29 am

janesalteredstates wrote:
rayne100 wrote:Hey guys... I very rarely post, however check out #22 and #23 on this list of Gardinarian Egyptian Heiroglyphs....

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm
Whoa. Can you (or someone) post this in the images thread? It can't be a coincidence. Can it? I mean, #9 is the eye...

Ugh. I don't know.

What might be important is finding out what the difference is between 22 and 23. I believe they are mouths. But why the lines at the bottom? Why two then three? What do they represent?

Check out:

http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/D-body-parts.html

D22 (mouth + 2 dashes) is a logogram for 2/3
D23 (mouth + 3 dashes) is a logogram for 3/4

And for Illuminati fans, check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence

and see how the Eye Of Horus ends up on the dollar bill. Oh no, FDR was in The Order

PS: Post #1, meep!

iamcool · Post by **iamcool** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:31 am

that is some great work, i think it is something to do with all the egyption mumbo jumbo but what has it go to do with it is the question?

hmmmm *strokes chin*

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:24 am

iamcool wrote:
Killthesmiley wrote:Apo already posted thi earlier in the email thread.
He emailed OpAphid about this, and Opaphid basically said No quite but that he was getting closer.
i didnt see him post anything like that link

yup the picture is in the previous page joshy poo (but that was another picture and i was wrong becasue i'm .... silly)

and someone else posted those exsact pictures in another thread, but i'm not sure which one as they've all been split up like a million and a half times.

cynicar · Post by **cynicar** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:33 am

KTS, are you talking about the symbol for number 9? Because I remember Apo posting that, but not the stuff for 22 & 23.

Maybe I'm just confused?

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:39 am

tiltingwindward wrote:OpA's very first puzzle did use Egyptian hieroglyphics...maybe we should return to the source.

That puzzle used Egyptian fractions, which is interesting because...

rayne100 wrote:Hey guys... I very rarely post, however check out #22 and #23 on this list of Gardinarian Egyptian Heiroglyphs....

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/gardner0.htm

Those hieroglyphs represent special Egyptian fractions

= 2/3 (D22) and

= 3/4 (D23). I think someone already mentioned this among the gazillion pages dealing with this puzzle (so sorry I can't give proper credit) but you can read how Egyptians used these here. In that first puzzle, the symbols used were something like this:

which is 1/3, and

Which is 1/10.

I have no clue why Egyptians did fractions like that. It's completely thorny to no benefit at all. I guess they were all nutjobs.

But how can we apply them to this puzzle? If we assume 3/4 =

=> Θ/Μ = 8/12 = 2/3, not 3/4. Now if that Θ was 9 (as in the Greek numerals) it would be correct as 9/12 = 3/4, except mu isn't 12 anymore but 40. So, what gives?

Edit, to add that 9/40 = 5/40 + 4/40 = 1/8 + 1/10 in Egyptian fractions. The other three ligatures would be:

Alphabetic order:
Τ/Φ = 19/21 = 19/21 = 3/4 + 1/7 + 1/84
Λ/Σ = 11/18 = 1/2 + 1/9
Η/Θ = 7/8 = 3/4 + 1/8

Greek numerals:
Τ/Φ = 300/500 = 3/5 = 1/2 + 1/10
Λ/Σ = 30/200 = 3/20 = 1/10 + 1/20 (or 1/7 + 1/140)
Η/Θ = 8/9 = 2/3 + 1/5 + 1/45 (or 3/4 + 1/8 + 1/72)

I don't think any of this fits this thread, but I'm not sure where to post stuff anymore. Sorry awesome mods

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:14 pm

*is not sure that Deagol's post was actually written in english*

tiltingwindward · Post by **tiltingwindward** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:23 pm

So, having followed Deagol's link, I've discovered that it makes a whole lot more sense than he did.

I've pulled a few things, and then I'll explain what I think. I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything other people have already said, but there are 500 pages of research out there on the forums, and it might have slipped past me.

Rational numbers could also be expressed, but only as sums of unit fractions, i.e. sums of reciprocals of positive integers, except for 2/3 and 3/4. The hieroglyph indicating a fraction looked like a mouth, which meant "part":

So, we have a basic shape, and it means "part." As in, a part of something? A part of something like, say, a super-secret worldwide organization?

To back this up, Wikipedia's other page on this says that the shape (symbol D22) is also a mouth and can mean "[one] among."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_fraction

Wikipedia continues on to say that fractions were created by taking the reciprocal of a number and assigning integer values to it. In layman's terms, this means that you took the mouth part and added a certain symbol to indicate what kind of fraction it was. There are two special symbols, as mentioned above, to indicate 2/3 and 3/4 -- these are the Watcher symbols...almost.

The Watcher symbol is distinguished from the basic fraction symbol (remember that it can mean "[one] among") by the addition of a dot in the center. In the past, it has been hypothesized that it is representative of the sun, or an eye. Egyptian fractions have something to say about this too:

Wikipedia wrote:In the Ancient Egyptian measurement system, the Eye Of Horus defined an Old Kingdom rounded off notation that continued in use in the Middle Kingdom, with each part of the eye representing a different fraction. The definition of one(1) was 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64 , written as a 6-term rounded off number. It dropped the remainder 1/64. The metaphorical side of this information linked all six fractions, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, and 1/64 to separate parts of the eye, as noted by:

* 1/2 was represented by smell, symbolized by the right side of the eye in a form of the nose. The pyramid text says: "Behold [the fire] rises in Abydos and it comes; I cause it to come, the Eye of Horus. It is set in order upon thy brow, O Osiris Khenti-Amenti; it is set in the shrine and rises on thy brow."

* 1/4 was represented by sight or the sensation of light, symbolized by the pupil. The pyramid text says: "Perfect is the Eye of Horus. I have delivered the Eye of Horus, the shining one, the ornament of the Eye of Ra, the Father of the Gods."

* 1/8 was represented by thought, symbolized by the eyebrow. The pyramid text says: "...the Eye of Horus hath made me holy...I will hide myself among you, O ye stars which are imperishable. My brow is the brow of Ra."

* 1/16 was represented by hearing, symbolized by the left side of the eye in the form of an arrow pointing towards the ear. The pyramid text says: "That which has been shut fast/dead hath been opened by the command of the Eye of Horus, which hath delivered me. Established are the beauties on the forehead of Ra."

* 1/32 was represented by taste, by the sprouting of wheat or grain from the planted stalk, symbolized by a curved tail. The pyramid text says: "Come, the Eye of Horus hath delivered for me my soul, my ornaments are established on the brow of Ra. Light is on the faces of those who are in the members of Osiris."

* 1/64 was represented by touch, symbolized by a leg touching the ground, or what can also be thought of as a strong plant growing into the surface of the earth. The pyramid text says: "I shall see the Gods and the Eye of Horus burning with fire before my eyes!"

The 'Eye of Horus' fractions were further discussed in the Egyptian Mathematical Leather Roll following elementary definitions that built the Egyptian fraction system.

Soooo....here we have a symbol which means "part of" or "one among," and we have six divisions, each of which represents an essential function of the whole.

I'm not saying that this is what we've been looking for, but it certainly makes me stop and think.

kellylen · Post by **kellylen** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:54 pm

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/e-dict10.htm

found this which shows many different derivatives of the watcher symbol

I've seen somewhere that the circle with the dot in it means sun and that the 3 lines mean rain, so could it be possible that it has something to do with the sun and the rain?

The 3 lines also symbolize plurality. :/ hmm

OHHHHHH GOT IT!

It is the symbol to weep.

then there is also it without the dot which is

and

2/3 and 3/4 respectively.

then there is

which is sunshine.
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/Gar ... -list.html
from here

janesalteredstates · Post by **janesalteredstates** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:34 am

kellylen were there supposed to be images? I'm confused

edit: I can see them now! It's a miracle!

Also, I'm thinking I want to focus on the eye rather than the mouth. What does it mean if one of the lashes is missing?

PinkoLady · Post by **PinkoLady** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:45 am

This is boggling my mind. Especially Deagol's post.