Watchers not part of the Order

LilyB · Post by **LilyB** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:33 am

So back in the day I wondered if the Watchers were actually part of the Order or if they were just assuming that. Now that there is this new vid and we know about Gemma being an Order member I have to wonder about them again. Afterall, Gemma tried to scare Bree into running from the Watchers. Perhaps that is because the Order doesn't want her to come into contact with them? And with that similar symbol found at Jonas' parents' cabin it would make sense if the Watchers were Anti-Order and Jonas' parents were affiliated with them.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:39 am

we know that watchers are a part of the order because opaphid uses that symbol, the same symbol that signifies watchers. And OpAphid is a member of the order/the militant group of the order.

eta:
she has also made refrence to them as "babysitters" that she used to watch what the trio were doing and where they were going.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:59 am

There's a lot of evidence that the Watchers are part of the Order.

heyiknowsyou · Post by **heyiknowsyou** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:59 am

I'm really glad you brought that up, Kelly, cause i was forgetting exactly that. Yesterday i went to bed thinking, 'maybe the watchers really aren't with the order...just like they said way back when...' but that train of thought bothered me. there was something that i was forgetting--exactly what you've said--that meant they were with the order.

anyway, i don't really have anything to say, except i'm still on the fence...

just like before.

Libra · Post by **Libra** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:17 am

I honestly believe that there is some conflict within the ranks of the Order. Which is why this crazy guy thinks its okay for him to go off and kidnap the kids and try to force them to do the ceremony/go home and forget everything.

There is still the free will thing. I think there are problems because some people believe Bree should willingly do the ceremony and others who should go at any means to force her to do this ceremony.

If you don't believe me remember this: OpAphid has NEVER used mind altering chemicals or torture to try to force Bree to do the ceremony. They did kidnap Daniel, but that action never hurt Bree physically. (They don't have any qualms about using the drugs on Daniel, but that's another story...)

cittiecait · Post by **cittiecait** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:20 am

watchers being protectors is an interesting one... in op ahids videos she does have the backwards talking about enemys with the symbol in teh bacak ground... just something to think about! thik the new mac ads... they use pcs in their ads to prove them incompitant... not a great example but stil....

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:41 am

Libra wrote:I honestly believe that there is some conflict within the ranks of the Order. Which is why this crazy guy thinks its okay for him to go off and kidnap the kids and try to force them to do the ceremony/go home and forget everything.

This makes sense, Libra, and I think it's a good possibility.

However, it is clear that the Watcher whom Jonas confront was not friendly. He simply could have stated, "Hey, I'm you guy's side", but instead tried to punch Jonas. This is not in line with Watcher/protectors.

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:58 am

longlostposter wrote:
Libra wrote:I honestly believe that there is some conflict within the ranks of the Order. Which is why this crazy guy thinks its okay for him to go off and kidnap the kids and try to force them to do the ceremony/go home and forget everything.
This makes sense, Libra, and I think it's a good possibility.

However, it is clear that the Watcher whom Jonas confront was not friendly. He simply could have stated, "Hey, I'm you guy's side", but instead tried to punch Jonas. This is not in line with Watcher/protectors.

I'd have to go watch this vid again, but IIRC, the Watcher didn't actually try to punch Jonas; he simply blocked Jonas's punch at him.

I know people discussed the possibility that the Watcher would have retaliated against Jonas, but Bree got in the way and he couldn't. In any event, the fact remains that regardless of his reasons, the Watcher did not punch Jonas.

BTW, I don't have any opinion right now about whether the Watchers are part of the Order or not -- I'm just pointing out the facts as I know/remember them.

Post by **Broken Kid** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:03 pm

Libra wrote:If you don't believe me remember this: OpAphid has NEVER used mind altering chemicals or torture to try to force Bree to do the ceremony.

OpAphid took credit for breaking into Bree and Daniel's hotel room way back when, and Owen was tortured! I'll never forgive her/them for that!

impulse · Post by **impulse** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:19 pm

I think Oppy is like the Watcher Queen, the Intelligence Service big shot, in other words she's M. And she's definitely part of the Order. I trust Watchers are just information gatherers, but it seems like some of them have the double 0 status.

impulse · Post by **impulse** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:27 pm

Something struck me in the previous vid. The Catcher said Jonas' parents are dead when he was interrogating Jonas. That of course contradicts what evil beauty Alex said. So I guess information is not shared with everyone within the Order, or that was just a way to confuse him.

Libra · Post by **Libra** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:45 pm

impulse wrote:Something struck me in the previous vid. The Catcher said Jonas' parents are dead when he was interrogating Jonas. That of course contradicts what evil beauty Alex said. So I guess information is not shared with everyone within the Order, or that was just a way to confuse him.

Some people have suggested this crazy guy was just a wanna-be, and not someone really in the order. So yeah it would make sense that he only knew what he could find in the newspaper, that Jonas' parents were dead.

Also saying things like "You don't want what happened to your parents to happen to Bree do you?" is a good way to get Jonas to go away. Or so the guy thought

Misty · Post by **Misty** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:35 pm

well way back when. I had a theory that the watchers weren't part of the order but were an independent group, that just observed and didn't interfere. I think "missing days" killed that theory , when Daniel said that the watcher shot that crazy guy. so now i se several possibilities.

1. the watchers are an independent group separate from the order, but they DO interfere.

2. the watchers are part of the order, and the "crazy guy" was actually with the resistance, but BD&J mistook him for an Order guy.

3. The watcher hit the wrong target, wasn't aiming at "crazy guy"

But division among the ranks in the order, would be a terrible explanation.

Jo_16_2 · Post by **Jo_16_2** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:12 pm

Misty wrote: 1. the watchers are an independent group separate from the order, but they DO interfere.

2. the watchers are part of the order, and the "crazy guy" was actually with the resistance, but BD&J mistook him for an Order guy.

3. The watcher hit the wrong target, wasn't aiming at "crazy guy"

1. well, opaphid already proved that the watchers are from the order

2. why would the guy be with the resistance and make bree say that she would do the ceremony?

3. if he hit the wrong target, he would shot again

impulse · Post by **impulse** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:18 pm

Could Bree represents a different interest for different factions of the Order?