A Serious Conversation

Evan · Post by **Evan** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:37 pm

I'd like to take a moment to talk as myself and not my jupiter living persona. I would like to start a very serious conversation about controversial subjects. Before hand I would like to say that you have a choice to read this post sodon't continue if you don't want too. I would also ask that all posts be no-risk, that is you cannot get angry at someone for posting their point of view. They have every right to voice there opinion and I encourage all to do so. Also if a fight starts I ask moderators to please step in. Now onto some topics.

One very big topic is gay marriage. In my opinion I think it should be allowed. I believe in god but I don't think that he disproves because he isn't that way. I think that 1, it isn't our decision to define how people can and cannot live their lives, 2 it is their life not ours, and 3 look at it from a point of veiw of what if it were heterosexual marrage that came into question? Also there is a species of lizard that has no males, only females (In all animal llife with each generation the male chromosome is getting smaller and smaller and wil eventually disappear, in this species it has) in order to reproduce the must have sex with another female lizard, the sex has no practical purpose except that it triggers something in their brains that says "reproduce". So let the conversation begin.

heyiknowsyou · Post by **heyiknowsyou** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:41 pm

Thats very interesting about the lizards, i've never heard of that before, but here you go, you got me googling like mad!

I like learning new things and i'm very scientific minded and logical. I'm not religious (more spiritual if anything), and that is why i find it hard to hear someone base their opinion of gay marriage on God's will. It doesn't make sense to me that you would let someone else rule your opinions. While i believe religion is great because of the good morals and values it instils, i don't understand why many people use God as ammunition against the love of two people.

One thing i think that would resolve the situation relatively smoothly is to have an equal ceremony, just not called marriage, with the same rights. I haven't really kept up on this subject in the last year, so i can't remember if this is already happening.

i'm running out of things to say and i have homework that needs attention, so i'm off. I've mentioned religion a lot, but please don't think i'm bashing any religions...i guess i'm just trying to point out some inconsistencies and confusing things i see... love to all!

Aithne · Post by **Aithne** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:02 am

heyiknowsyou wrote: While i believe religion is great because of the good morals and values it instils, i don't understand why many people use God as ammunition against the love of two people.

This saddens me, because I believe God IS love. I believe that when we love each other we are allowing God to shine through us.

Evan · Post by **Evan** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:58 am

heyiknowsyou wrote:Thats very interesting about the lizards, i've never heard of that before, but here you go, you got me googling like mad!

I like learning new things and i'm very scientific minded and logical. I'm not religious (more spiritual if anything), and that is why i find it hard to hear someone base their opinion of gay marriage on God's will. It doesn't make sense to me that you would let someone else rule your opinions. While i believe religion is great because of the good morals and values it instils, i don't understand why many people use God as ammunition against the love of two people.

One thing i think that would resolve the situation relatively smoothly is to have an equal ceremony, just not called marriage, with the same rights. I haven't really kept up on this subject in the last year, so i can't remember if this is already happening.

i'm running out of things to say and i have homework that needs attention, so i'm off. I've mentioned religion a lot, but please don't think i'm bashing any religions...i guess i'm just trying to point out some inconsistencies and confusing things i see... love to all!

I kinda am the same way about religion, I like to have a theory that has been proven to grasp, It is nice to believe in god and I do but i think that not everything in the bible is true, we know he didn't make the earth in 7 days because that iisn't what has been proven, again my perspective.

Evan · Post by **Evan** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:06 am

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expedit ... ds.html?50

http://www.nerve.com/Regulars/ScienceOf ... -19-00.asp

Aithne · Post by **Aithne** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:33 am

Evan wrote:
heyiknowsyou wrote:Thats very interesting about the lizards, i've never heard of that before, but here you go, you got me googling like mad!

I like learning new things and i'm very scientific minded and logical. I'm not religious (more spiritual if anything), and that is why i find it hard to hear someone base their opinion of gay marriage on God's will. It doesn't make sense to me that you would let someone else rule your opinions. While i believe religion is great because of the good morals and values it instils, i don't understand why many people use God as ammunition against the love of two people.

One thing i think that would resolve the situation relatively smoothly is to have an equal ceremony, just not called marriage, with the same rights. I haven't really kept up on this subject in the last year, so i can't remember if this is already happening.

i'm running out of things to say and i have homework that needs attention, so i'm off. I've mentioned religion a lot, but please don't think i'm bashing any religions...i guess i'm just trying to point out some inconsistencies and confusing things i see... love to all!
I kinda am the same way about religion, I like to have a theory that has been proven to grasp, It is nice to believe in god and I do but i think that not everything in the bible is true, we know he didn't make the earth in 7 days because that iisn't what has been proven, again my perspective.

I think it is important to remember that God did not get out his handy dandy notebook and pen and write the bible. Man did, and we know how that can go (ever play the telephone game?). Also, there were concepts that man could not even imagine during the time that certain portions of the bible was written.

Back to the gay marriage issue: If my understanding is correct, the only thing holding off gay marriage is the religious issues. ummmm...separation of church and state? Marriage as in the contract is a legal document. Nothing more. Unless we add more meaning to it, it is just a piece of paper. People who are against gay marriage are not forced to acknowledge them. Hell, my friend and her husband did not acknowledge their marriage for 6 years before they got a divorce.

heyiknowsyou · Post by **heyiknowsyou** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:56 pm

I think the thing a lot of people get upset with about the gay marriage issue is that a gay couple wouldn't have the same rights as a het couple...the example often used is when someone is hurt and in the hospital, a gay person's partner might not be let in to see them as they are not officially 'next of kin.' things like that.

i would say more but i have to rush off to work. just wanted to say a quick something.

Aithne · Post by **Aithne** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:44 pm

heyiknowsyou wrote:I think the thing a lot of people get upset with about the gay marriage issue is that a gay couple wouldn't have the same rights as a het couple...the example often used is when someone is hurt and in the hospital, a gay person's partner might not be let in to see them as they are not officially 'next of kin.' things like that.

i would say more but i have to rush off to work. just wanted to say a quick something.

Agreed, which is why I say the argument against it...well...my post above is all I have to say on it.

Sami · Post by **Sami** » Tue May 01, 2007 3:52 pm

Gay marriage should be allowed................................... nuff said

EDIT:

Homofobs are great entertaning btw:
http://www.godhatessweden.com/ <-- funny

http://www.godhatessweden.com/html/royalfamily.html <-- Funny as hell

Mikayla · Post by **Mikayla** » Wed May 02, 2007 6:23 am

I think its not normal, but acceptable.

Particular · Post by **Particular** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:04 am

I'm all for gay marriage. I think that if two people want to have a loving stable relationship recognised, then that's great.

However, I think there will be a little problem in calling the union between same sex couples "marriage," in my country anyway, because there is still that outdated religious stigma attached to it. Sorry if any of you are die hard christians, but in the wise words of Will Anderson, "where's my slave?" (Melbourne comedy festival gala 2007). I think affording the same legal rights to same sex couples has been an idea that more and more citizens are warming to, even if conservative politicians refuse to see it.

Particular · Post by **Particular** » Wed May 02, 2007 8:09 am

Oh and another thing. Regading denying the same rights as heterosexual couples to same sex couples....

Aboriginals were denied rights once
Women were denied rights once
Jews were denied rights once
Communists were denied rights...err, okay, communists ARE denied rights (haha, so much for freedom of political beliefs huh?)

Point being, its all discrimination, and it is often based on unfounded prejudice. Spread the love (and the legal rights)!

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:53 am

heyiknowsyou wrote: One thing i think that would resolve the situation relatively smoothly is to have an equal ceremony, just not called marriage, with the same rights. I haven't really kept up on this subject in the last year, so i can't remember if this is already happening.

Why should there be something "equal, just not called marriage"? Why shouldn't we be able to marry just like you straight people?

Like the sign on my front lawn says: "Separate-but-equal" is still wrong.

7Harry7Potter7 · Post by **7Harry7Potter7** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:45 pm

I am a Christian, but I'm all for gay marriage! Where in the Bible does it say that it's 'not allowed'? I think that if you're gay, you're born gay. I don't think you can turn away from it. And who's to say who you can and cannot spend the rest of your life with? I mean, you could even if you don't get married, but still. You get the picture.
I just don't get people who say that God doesn't like gay people. That's bogus. God loves everyone. Period. It says it all over the Bible!

xentis · Post by **xentis** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:15 pm

I support same sex marrigage and everything but It wouldnt be much of a debate if we were all on the same sid eso for this post i will be changeing my role

being gay is not nature like have glasses or being on the "pill"

oppisite sex couples marriage is allowed becasue they can make babys which gays cannot

gay marriges will encourage others to be gay

If its legal everywhere it may lead to beastility being legal and other crazy stuff

schools will have to change there teachings to include same sex relationships